Ultimate Amiga

Network Boards => AMOS Professional Re-Development => AMOS Factory => ClassicAMOS Development => Topic started by: rayon on January 22, 2013, 06:08:34 AM

Title: Skype conference (AMOS Pro Dev Discussion)
Post by: rayon on January 22, 2013, 06:08:34 AM
Dear All,

I'm back from my holiday trip and I would propose a conference call via Skype to discuss a path we can lay down to get the job done.

How many people are involved with the (re)development of AMOS.
Can we make a list of people including timezone? Then I can invite everyone.

I've also some interesting topics to share for this conf-call.

Cheers..

---------------------------------------------------------------------

[Edit by MadAngus]
Post your Skype details here so rayon can set this up.

Ive moved all the posts from other threads with Skype details to here.

Here is the Skypes

Rayon
Skype account: killermachineV2
Timezone: Netherlands, GMT +1

bruceuncle
Skype: bruceuncle
Timezone: EST Australia = +10 hours GMT

Sidewinder
Skype ID:  mness1978
Timezone:  Central Time in the USA (GMT-6)

SamuraiCrow
Skype account:  samurai_crow
Timezone:  Central Daylight Time in the USA=GMT+6
Title: Re: Skype conference (AMOS Pro Dev Discussion)
Post by: bruceuncle on January 24, 2013, 05:45:05 AM
Welcome back.  I trust the vacation was worth it?

My details are:

Skype:  bruceuncle
Timezone:  EST Australia = +10 hours GMT

Not at all sure how many people are committed to this project yet.  This thread is where you can sign-up for access to the development boards:

http://www.ultimateamiga.co.uk/index.php/topic,9581.0.html

I suggest we terminate this thread and continue there after this post.  If we haven't upset MadAngus too much already  ;).

So far, it's me (fully committed) with SamuraiCrow and Lonewolf10 also on that thread.  MadAngus is fully committed to the documentation (and the most hard working by far from his prolific output!).

I started out on the task of documenting AMOS Pro as a Reference Manual.  This came from pulling the Help Files apart (much more up-to-date than the manual) and plonking them in an Access database.  It outputs RTF format with contents, index and 'see also's all fully linked.  You just run the RTF through your favourite word processor, paginate it (worst job on the planet) and tell it to update fields.  The format is B5 (MadAngus insisted on B5).  That project's still ongoing as I decided I needed to actually program in AMOS to understand it.  Then the sources became available so some more revision's needed  ::) .  A long way from completion, but very thorough.

I've also got some AMOS utilities underway and also running way behind but nearly ready now:

The DBL Editor for Interface programs.
Accessories for Procedure, Label and Variable listing, marking and 'goto'.
A simple Comments remover.
A utility that reconstructs the original IFF piccie for any Resource Bank that's missing its IFF file.

That last one came from the IFF for the Compiler resource bank not being included in the commercial distribution.

I suffer from a severe back problem which makes sitting at a PC for too long a literal pain when it decides to play up (my back, not the PC  :) ).  So my output's sometimes very sporadic to say the least.  I get a lot of reading done though  ;D .  It's been a bad couple of months but better for a week now, so I'm tyring to catch up and get those deliverabvle out to the community.  Makes me appreciate why a laptop would be useful but I can't justify the cost just yet.   :'(
Title: Re: Skype conference (AMOS Pro Dev Discussion)
Post by: Sidewinder on January 24, 2013, 07:08:21 PM
There was a thread about a Skype meeting that referred me here.  I'd like to join if I am able.

Skype ID:  mness1978
Timezone:  Central Time in the USA (GMT-6)

I'm also trying to get a handle on where to find the latest dev info.  I generally don't have a lot of time to read all the threads every day so when things move around or change location I get lost easily.  Any tips on staying in the loop?

Thanks,
Mike
Title: Re: Skype conference (AMOS Pro Dev Discussion)
Post by: bruceuncle on January 24, 2013, 09:43:51 PM
Quote from: Sidewinder
I'm also trying to get a handle on where to find the latest dev info.  I generally don't have a lot of time to read all the threads every day so when things move around or change location I get lost easily.  Any tips on staying in the loop?
Welcome to the group.  Rayon has volunteered to start managing this project (as you'd have seen from the Volunteer thread). 

This topic is probably where the most discussion has taken place:
http://www.ultimateamiga.co.uk/index.php/board,313.0.html (http://www.ultimateamiga.co.uk/index.php/board,313.0.html)
The threads there should be self-explanatory.  You'll find lots of waffle from me and other contributors there.

So far, the emphasis is on getting the AMOS Pro docs complete so we know where we're going.  MadAngus has the AMOS Pro User Manual re-birthed.  (Where does he get the time?  Superb work there MadAngus.   8) 8) 8)).  I'm trailing by a long way with the Reference Manual which brings the docs up-to-date with the Pro V2.0 release in instruction-by-instruction detail.  And including all the stuff not mentioned in the original manual and help files.

Not much done on the sources yet.  I suggested elsewhere that the first task is to match source to component (eg. +w.s = amiga.library; +lib.s = AMOSPro.Lib; etc; etc).   There's a bit of what we've discovered so far here:
http://www.ultimateamiga.co.uk/index.php/topic,9600.0.html (http://www.ultimateamiga.co.uk/index.php/topic,9600.0.html)
And more stuff here:
http://www.ultimateamiga.co.uk/index.php/topic,9582.0.html (http://www.ultimateamiga.co.uk/index.php/topic,9582.0.html)

It's all a bit fragmented I'm afraid and MadAngus's comments on "Keep on Topic" are all too true.

Anyway, let's get together with Rayon and anyone else who can make it so we can get some definitive plan mapped out.
Title: Re: Skype conference (AMOS Pro Dev Discussion)
Post by: MadAngus on January 25, 2013, 06:10:31 AM
Post your Skype details in this thread.

Also anybody who doesn't have Skype (like me) or can't join, you can add things you would like discussed. this will help rayon create an Agenda for the conference.

Please note: Not all suggestions will get onto the Agenda, "C'est la vie".

Title: Re: Skype conference (AMOS Pro Dev Discussion)
Post by: SamuraiCrow on January 25, 2013, 06:38:02 AM
Skype account:  samurai_crow
Timezone:  Central Daylight Time in the USA=GMT+6
My work schedule is from 4pm to 1am on the days that I work.  Ask in advance to find out what my schedule is and I'll tell you if I can make it or not.
Title: Re: Skype conference (AMOS Pro Dev Discussion)
Post by: Lonewolf10 on January 26, 2013, 08:44:30 PM
Quote from: MadAngus on January 25, 2013, 06:10:31 AM
Also anybody who doesn't have Skype (like me) or can't join, you can add things you would like discussed. this will help rayon create an Agenda for the conference.

I don't have Skype either, but for future reference I am from the UK (GMT+0).
Title: Re: Skype conference (AMOS Pro Dev Discussion)
Post by: rayon on January 31, 2013, 08:29:46 PM
Whow guys, I'm a little confused with this forum.
I just found this thread by accident actually.
How come that there are new threads created all the time?
Title: Re: Skype conference (AMOS Pro Dev Discussion)
Post by: rayon on February 01, 2013, 03:11:52 PM
Dear all,

Please start your Skypes, and accept the invites and make sure that everybody is connected (at least to my account).

After that is done we can start planning a conf call. I see that we are all over the world so that needs some organizing (I will arrange that).

Cheers...
Title: Re: Skype conference (AMOS Pro Dev Discussion)
Post by: SamuraiCrow on February 02, 2013, 07:57:55 PM
I think I put the wrong timezone in.  It's GMT -6, not +6.
Title: Re: Skype conference (AMOS Pro Dev Discussion)
Post by: Lonewolf10 on February 02, 2013, 09:10:35 PM
Quote from: SamuraiCrow on February 02, 2013, 07:57:55 PM
I think I put the wrong timezone in.  It's GMT -6, not +6.

Hehe, I was going to correct that, but forgot. I knew it was wrong because Russia is GMT+3 and Phillipines is GMT+7 (I have friends all over the world ;)).

Is anyone going to take any minutes (notes) on what is discussed for those that don't have skype, or can't make it for other reasons?
Title: Re: Skype conference (AMOS Pro Dev Discussion)
Post by: bruceuncle on February 03, 2013, 10:31:38 AM
Quote from: Lonewolf10
Is anyone going to take any minutes (notes) on what is discussed for those that don't have skype, or can't make it for other reasons?

According to my sound card (SB X-Fi XtremeGamer Fatal1ty Pro) I should be able to record anything going through it.  And Skype free version can only conference call as audio-only.  So I should be able to record it all and distribute in mp3 format.  I'll try a test as soon as I can.  Never done it before and Creative's mixing desk app looks horribly daunting. 

Failing that, my wife's always complaining about of lack of practice with shorthand (yes, some people still do shorthand and it's surprisingly very much in demand for 'sensitive' corporate meetings)...

I'll be unavailable over the next week or two for personal reasons.  Although I may stick my nose in here and there if I get the opportunity.  I usually check the forum regularly on my smartphone when I can't get at my PC.  But replying is a bugger even with a stylus!

(Piece of trivia - Australia has the fourth highest number of smartphone users per head of population on the planet.  And you thought we just drank beer and lazed on the beach whilst shearing the odd sheep and chucking iron ore at any passing boat!)
Title: Re: Skype conference (AMOS Pro Dev Discussion)
Post by: rayon on February 05, 2013, 07:24:20 AM
The following persons are connected: bruceuncle, Sidewinder, SamuraiCrow.
I still miss MadAngus and Lonewolf10 in the skype list.

The idea is to start a short 'introduction meeting' to see if everything is working, get introduced and set the date for a kick-off meeting and possible agenda.

No need to record, I think we should work with notes. That is also easier to search through and can be published here as well.
Title: Re: Skype conference (AMOS Pro Dev Discussion)
Post by: rayon on February 10, 2013, 09:16:13 AM
There all, we are almost there.

Just reminding you that Skype is available on a variety of platforms and is totally free!
It's also available for Linux, Android, MacOS, iOS, etc...

http://www.skype.com/en/download-skype/skype-for-computer/

I've created a Skype group (can be compared to an IRC channel), with this we can send files, look at screenshots, take over desktops, chat and talk.....

Waiting for MadAngus and Lonewolf10, then we can take off... ;D
Title: Re: Skype conference (AMOS Pro Dev Discussion)
Post by: bruceuncle on July 04, 2013, 06:09:25 AM
Anyone want to join in?  I've been chatting a lot with rayon but the other subscribers are mysteriously quiet  ;)

Go on, give it a go.  Lots to talk about.
Title: Re: Skype conference (AMOS Pro Dev Discussion)
Post by: Lonewolf10 on July 04, 2013, 08:40:37 PM
Quote from: bruceuncle on July 04, 2013, 06:09:25 AM
Anyone want to join in?  I've been chatting a lot with rayon but the other subscribers are mysteriously quiet  ;)

I have tried to find versions of Skype that work on my laptop, but so far the recent ones fall over when they come in contact with Windows 2K SP4. Well, they actually refuse to install as they are for more recents OS's.
I tried the version on my mobile, but that appears to not work! I will see if I can find a version that works on my Nokia N73 over the weekend.
Title: Re: Skype conference (AMOS Pro Dev Discussion)
Post by: bruceuncle on July 05, 2013, 12:44:53 AM
Quote from: Lonewolf10
but so far the recent ones fall over when they come in contact with Windows 2K SP4. Well, they actually refuse to install as they are for more recents OS's
Yes.  It really annoys me when perfectly good OS versions stop being "acceptable" as environments for new software and you can no longer get access to the legacy versions.   >:(  I've had to run the Messysoft XP Mode emulator in Win7 for some of my older apps.  And that emulator's got some nasty bugs!

The latest Skype on my Nokia Lumia 800 (running Windows Phone 7.5) sort of works.  At least the last update will give me video and sound which it didn't at the previous version.  Haven't tried text but I assume that works.  Don't know about Android or Apple OSs.  In any case, it's more a novelty than usable with data caps for mobiles being what they are in Australia (1.5Gb per month on my plan).  Skype on video can chew huge amounts of bandwidth, depending on the resolution.  I do have an old mate in the UK who insists on Skypeing me from his mobile but he's on an unlimited plan.  The video quality's not very good but the audio's okay. 

The best part about Skype on a PC is the ability to quickly and easily send files to each other while you chat.  When chatting with rayon we've exchanged files that way nice and easy.

Any chance you could install Linux for a dual-boot system and try Skype in that?  Worth a try if you've got enough disk space.  I've never run Linux on my PCs, so is there anyone else that knows more and can help on this?
Title: Re: Skype conference (AMOS Pro Dev Discussion)
Post by: Lonewolf10 on July 05, 2013, 08:45:12 PM
Quote from: bruceuncle on July 05, 2013, 12:44:53 AM
In any case, it's more a novelty than usable with data caps for mobiles being what they are in Australia (1.5Gb per month on my plan).  Skype on video can chew huge amounts of bandwidth, depending on the resolution.

Only 1.5Gb bandwidth? I'm limited to 10MB per month, but I only use my mobile phone to read emails. I used to use the Y! app, but as of last week that no longer works. I'm now forced to use the slow to use online email reader that Y! provides and my mobile has a nifty option whether to load images or not, so I switch that off to reduce bandwidth ;)

Quote from: bruceuncle on July 05, 2013, 12:44:53 AM
Any chance you could install Linux for a dual-boot system and try Skype in that?  Worth a try if you've got enough disk space.

I don't know anything about Linux or dual-boot systems. I only have about 1GB left on this 20GB harddrive and I have all the tools (mostly Windows based) I need for everything I need to create games (sound file converter, polygon modeler, WinUAE, sinewave generator, image and video editors among others), therefore I have no desire to upgrade or change anything.
Title: Re: Skype conference (AMOS Pro Dev Discussion)
Post by: rednova on July 06, 2013, 09:34:02 PM
Dear friends:

I cannot use skype for reasons similar to lonewolf.
I have good news, even though I do not post much, I am
still around and still planning to code new amos games in amiga.
love !!! and good luck to all of you.
Title: Re: Skype conference (AMOS Pro Dev Discussion)
Post by: bruceuncle on July 08, 2013, 11:48:39 PM
Quote from: Lonewolf10
Only 1.5Gb bandwidth? I'm limited to 10MB per month,
I'll never complain about my 'phone plan again!   :o

Quote from: Lonewolf10
I don't know anything about Linux or dual-boot systems.
I'm afraid I don't know much about that area either.  But, I have seen free Linux systems bootable from a usb stick.  Is that a viable option just for running Skype?  Usb sticks in the 4 Gb to 8 Gb range are very cheap these days (well, they are in Australia - around $5).

In any case, I'll keep you updated by posts or PMs with anything that gets discussed on Skype.  I'll also look at setting up a web site for file exchanges outside of the forum. That's also something I haven't done before ;D so wish me luck and don't expect anything soon!  Some of the work-in-progress is not really suitable for forum posting but is of interest to anyone working on a new AMOS Pro.

Thanks for all that work on extensions.  The next AMOSPro loader/linker docs release should be of real interest to you.  I've also got a very fast and simple way of doing the context switching needed for AGA.  But it won't make sense to anyone until I've got that part of the sources docs completed.  Should be some time this week...  I'll post in the AGA thread here (http://www.ultimateamiga.co.uk/index.php/topic,9656.msg45559.html#msg45559).
Title: Re: Skype conference (AMOS Pro Dev Discussion)
Post by: SamuraiCrow on July 09, 2013, 05:14:00 AM
Maybe we could have one of the admins set up a private forum on here for developers only?  I don't think it would be that hard, it would just be a matter of configuring the forum software on the server correctly.  We used to have a moderators and admins-only forum on the old Amos Factory page.  We might have something on here that can be used for a similar purpose.
Title: Re: Skype conference (AMOS Pro Dev Discussion)
Post by: Lonewolf10 on July 09, 2013, 06:28:24 PM
Quote from: bruceuncle on July 08, 2013, 11:48:39 PM
Quote from: Lonewolf10
Only 1.5Gb bandwidth? I'm limited to 10MB per month,
I'll never complain about my 'phone plan again!   :o

 :)

Quote from: bruceuncle on July 08, 2013, 11:48:39 PM
I'll also look at setting up a web site for file exchanges outside of the forum. That's also something I haven't done before ;D so wish me luck and don't expect anything soon!

I already have my website ( http://www.aliensrcooluk.com (http://www.aliensrcooluk.com) ) which could be used for storing files outside of this forum. I could either upload them myself or attempt (as I have not done it before) to give someone access to upload to a specific folder.
Title: Re: Skype conference (AMOS Pro Dev Discussion)
Post by: Hungry Horace on July 09, 2013, 07:02:25 PM
I will set up a private board - we have others already.

All I need is the user list please :)

There I no problems with you guys uploading post-attachments in that board, or else FOL might be able to set up a shared FTP access?
Title: Re: Skype conference (AMOS Pro Dev Discussion)
Post by: SamuraiCrow on July 09, 2013, 08:10:52 PM
The thread at this link (http://www.ultimateamiga.co.uk/index.php/topic,9581.0.html) has the developers and contributers listed in the first post.
Title: Re: Skype conference (AMOS Pro Dev Discussion)
Post by: bruceuncle on July 09, 2013, 10:46:13 PM
Quote from: SamuraiCrow on July 09, 2013, 08:10:52 PM
The thread at this link (http://www.ultimateamiga.co.uk/index.php/topic,9581.0.html) has the developers and contributers listed in the first post.
Thanks.  I was just about to remind us of the same  ;)

We need a moderator though.  For new additions, etc.  Haven't seen MadAngus around for months now.  Are you still out there MadAngus?

Things are about to start getting interesting...
Title: Re: Skype conference (AMOS Pro Dev Discussion)
Post by: Hungry Horace on July 10, 2013, 07:51:33 PM
OK, it seems a Member Group called "AMOS Devs" had already been created, but was without members yet.

As such (regardless of existing status) i have added the following members to the group: (alphabetical order!)

- bruceuncle    
- Hungry Horace   
- james666  (who btw, was missed by the linked list!!)
- Lonewolf10
- MadAngus
- rayon
- SamuraiCrow
- Sidewinder

Quote from: MadAngus
The 'General Discussion' and 'Feature requests and bug reports' boards are open to all.

The 'ClassicAMOS Development', 'AMOS 3.x Development' and 'AMOS Pro Documentation' boards will only be open to Core/Contributing Developers, Beta Testers and Documentors, all others will have read only access.

Going through these, as proposed, the first three already existing and the others have been created:

- 'General Discussion'
- 'Feature requests and bug reports' 
- 'ClassicAMOS Development'
- 'AMOS 3.x Development'
- 'AMOS Pro Documentation'
- 'Private Development Board'


I have managed to make the last board only for viewing and editing by mods and group members only... however, i have not yet worked out how to set boards 3-5 as "read only" to regular members and editable by AMOS devs.
(apologies, but it's been a long time since i did this!!)

Hope it helps, and i will hassle FOL about some kind of FTP access if you guys need it :)


EDIT:

Permissions for boards 3-5 *should* now be as follows;

All access except Moderation by Group Members
All access by Site Moderators
Viewable by all members and guests
Title: Re: Skype conference (AMOS Pro Dev Discussion)
Post by: Hungry Horace on July 10, 2013, 08:10:19 PM
Quote from: bruceuncle on July 09, 2013, 10:46:13 PM
We need a moderator though.  For new additions, etc.  Haven't seen MadAngus around for months now.  Are you still out there MadAngus?

What needs moderating? I visit the board every day and can do some minor tweeks and/or set things up like the above, but i havent really the capacity to be chopping / changing every post as needed.

Just point me in the right direction if there's anything that's needed :)
Title: Re: Skype conference (AMOS Pro Dev Discussion)
Post by: bruceuncle on July 11, 2013, 05:40:08 AM
Many thanks Hungry Horace.  "Moderator" was probably the wrong word.  "Someone to do what you just did" would have been more appropriate  8) .  Maybe "Site Admin"...

I don't want to be picky after all that effort, but the home page after I log in now looks like a forum postings list (all 46 pages of it!).  The lovely Ultimate Amiga Home Page layout has disappeared.  Any connection with your recent efforts?   ;D

Doing forensic docs on the core sources takes one heck of a lot of time.  Making those docs available so the time's not wasted if I get run over by the proverbial bus takes even longer.  Changing the code and collating the (so-far-underwhelming-except-for-james666-contributions) bug fixes will take more time still.  So knowing there's someone out there to do the admin stuff is very reassuring.  This project will run a long, long time...

I'm always happier writing code and docs than doing admin stuff.  I was always a lousy project manager, a reasonable team leader and a good programmer.  So you can see where my talents lie  ;D

Thanks again and good luck fixing the home page.
Title: Re: Skype conference (AMOS Pro Dev Discussion)
Post by: bruceuncle on July 11, 2013, 05:46:19 AM
Quote
I don't want to be picky after all that effort, but the home page after I log in now looks like a forum postings list (all 46 pages of it!).

FYI: If I don't log in and just visit as a guest, the Home Page is fine.
Title: Re: Skype conference (AMOS Pro Dev Discussion)
Post by: SamuraiCrow on July 11, 2013, 08:20:38 AM
Ok, I created and removed a test thread on the new private forum.  It works fine with my test.  I should be able to moderate sufficiently well.  Thanks Hungry Horace!
Title: Re: Skype conference (AMOS Pro Dev Discussion)
Post by: Hungry Horace on July 11, 2013, 01:31:25 PM
Quote from: bruceuncle on July 11, 2013, 05:40:08 AM
I don't want to be picky after all that effort, but the home page after I log in now looks like a forum postings list (all 46 pages of it!).  The lovely Ultimate Amiga Home Page layout has disappeared.  Any connection with your recent efforts?   ;D
...
Thanks again and good luck fixing the home page.

hate to disappoint, but i havent touched the home page and it looks fine here, so it must be something to do with the member group.... i will investigate!

edit:  made a change - let me know if it helps.


ps. are you talking about the UA front page or the Amos Factory front page?

Title: Re: Skype conference (AMOS Pro Dev Discussion)
Post by: bruceuncle on July 12, 2013, 01:14:15 AM
Quote from: Hungry Horace
edit:  made a change - let me know if it helps.
Better.  I get the left-side frames now but not the right-side one with the latest posts and shouts.  And the centre is still one long 46 page scroll.  I've attached a couple of screen shots so you can see what I mean.  One is what I get when I login (the 2 seconds wait) the other is the UA Home page.  If I don't login (i.e. guest) the home page is fine.