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[gsm]

I tried running the client and server on my computer, with one of the validated packs from the big pack 4 thread.  Even though my CUP Idle process was at 98%, and my ping was at 0, and the framerate I had chosen from the drop-down was LAN (60 FPS), the game ran at 11 frames per second.  The game: Speedball.  The computer: Macbook booting into Windows XP.  Testing outside of Kaillera (just hitting OK on the UAE screen) runs at the expected speed, no stuttering.  

Is this a known problem (perhaps due to magical 0 ping?), and I should either get a separate server, or use the P2P setup for what I'm trying to do?

Goal: running Wasted Dreams co-op via UAEKaillera.

(Already have it running on vanilla UAE, hopefully will work with older UAE...)

[Skateblind]

Welcome to Amiga Online.

Let me get this straight, you tried running 2 kaillera's at the same time on 1 computer(Your mac)? Or did you have a second person/computer to be the client/host?
Ping 0 usually means you are the one hosting.

You seem to have a good idea of how it is all done, because all the settings you mentioned were correct, but if you have not already, I would suggest taking a look at the guide. /../../index.php/topic,4241.0.html

What speed AND ping is your internet connection, you can check both with any good speed checker online. There are basically 2 types of connection, maybe 3(lan?), one connects to a server and allows anyone to be the host, the other is p2p which means one of the players has to set up their own personal server and both players have to have the correct port open and selected to bypass any firewall or restrictions on your computer. Maybe it was a firewall that was causing the slowdown?

The version of UAE is very old, so it can be incompatible or slow at times. It needs a lot of bandwidth or a very good ping to run well. Kaillera was not very well made or far into development, so it is not exactly great either, but we have not had a problem with it that wasn't our own fault.

Once I have the answers to those questions I should be able to help you out, but if not me, I am sure Hungry Horace would know.

[gsm]

Thanks for replying quickly, but it seems I didn't make myself clear.

The computer for this test isis not connected to the internet.  I am running both the server program and the client program on the same computer.  The two are connected by localhost (IP address of 127.0.0.1).  There are no firewall concerns, because nothing ever leaves the computer.  I am doing this for testing purposes, to see how fast the program would run under ideal circumstances (0 ping, no lag).  My problem is that even though the ping is as low as 0, and the desired framerate is set to maximum (60 fps) the actual framerate was 11 fps.  It can't be due to the computer not being fast enough, since the CPU is 90% idle while both programs are running (server and client). 

Further experiments:

I installed the P2P dll and tried connecting two instances of UAE together on the same machine (again, using localhost).  Interestingly, this nearly doubled my framerate, with both clients managing a slightly less stuttering 19 fps.  Still, the CPU wasn't breaking a sweat, and ping sat at 0.  Why am I getting such miserable performance under ideal conditions (more than adequate CPU speed, 0 ping)?  I haven't done an actual game online yet, and I see little reason to try if the settings as-is run so poorly under such perfect conditions. 

Regarding my Wasted Dreams plans, I managed to create an HDF of the game, and run it by booting a workbench ADF.  But using the version of UAE that came with the Kalliera pack, it takes nearly 10 minutes to boot, and then runs somewhere around 6 fps.  I realize this is an older version of UAE, but why is the difference so dramatic?  Even if it was exceedingly inefficient emulation, it should just just use more CPU power and run faster!  My newer UAE runs the game fine at full speed, yet even without enabling Kaillera, this version of UAE can't manage double-digit framerates.

How does this run for everybody else?  Are you actually able to run games at playable speeds, or is everybody just ignoring the unbearable slowdown?

[Skateblind]

It works fine for 100% of people who have a relatively good computer and connection. Trying to run two winuae's AND kaillera's on the one computer is probably your problem. Try running just the game twice without kaillera and see if the slowdown still happens, if not then it is because you are trying to connect to yourself...  :lol:

[gsm]

I guess I'll just wait 'till Horace or one of the other pack devs shows up.

[Skateblind]

Me and Horace are the only pack devs. Horace has done 99% of everything on this site, I've done the other 1%.

[gsm]

You mean you never do any testing using localhost?  I would expect such a small development team would do plenty of testing that didn't depend on the availability of a second party.  Maybe that's why I see so many posts apologizing for the delay of pack 4!   :lol:

Could you try this experiment, just so I can see what kind of performance you get?

1)
Launch the server application, and the pack for killerball.  Choose "enter IP" and enter 127.0.0.1
Start the game as the only player.  What framerate do you get?

[Skateblind]

I am not sure if you noticed, but we didn't create winuae or kaillera, so testing every single possible option was not exactly a goal of ours. We have done plenty of testing, but a lot of the new packs are betas purely because we don't have the time or the energy to test every single one properly. We also never thought of testing the ability to connect to yourself. :nuts:

I can't do these experiments you ask for atm, but I will give Horace a nudge in this general direction.

[Hungry Horace]

The computer: Macbook booting into Windows XP

You may simply find this is the result of your problems. I have tried the same (i dont use a PC anymore) and can sometimes achieve fine results, and sometimes not. I only ever test on an internet connection (sometimes using 2 machines in the same building, but stillover the net) , because that is the target usage of winuae-kaillera, and therefore what it is designed for.

What does happen with winuae-kaillera is if the machine is too fast (yes) the result is slow. this is a fault of the program and we have no solution for this. Have you tried using the program recommended here: ../../index.php/topic,4262.0.html  ?


No offence intended, but I dont really understand the purpose of this anyway. If you are using one machine, you just need to use WinUAE (normal), if you are using two, you need to be using a P2P connection over the internet ideally.

How does this run for everybody else?  Are you actually able to run games at playable speeds, or is everybody just ignoring the unbearable slowdown?

A ridiculous question, because you are running an abnormal machine / setup. There are literally hundreds of people using winuae-kaillera with great success. (99% playing Sensible Soccer) ... again, all via the internet.

You mean you never do any testing using localhost?

no, we dont. because that is not the target setup. As stated above, if you want to use one machine, you use regular vanilla winuae, which is far more capable that the outdated winuae-kaillera, which has the target host(s) of 2 machines over the internet. Testing any other way is pointless imho.

would expect such a small development team would do plenty of testing that didn't depend on the availability of a second party.

See my last point.

Maybe that's why I see so many posts apologizing for the delay of pack 4!

the delay is because of;

- a massive lack of interest from outside parties
- the fact I have no support and do all the pack creation myself
- I have no PC (that works decently) and booting XP on my MacBook i find somewhat offensive!
- I have better ideas i would like to implement for this project, that will not happen quickly by myself
- commitment to other Amiga projects at this time.

IF i find the time, i will consider testing this for you (also on my MacBook), but i would expect it to be a pointless exercise, sorry. I hope you are not offended by anything in my post, i'm just stating a few facts here (perhaps somewhat bluntly!)

[gsm]

Sorry for venting my frustrations with the program on this board.  I realize I have a rather curt manner, but that doesn't excuse my storming in and complaining.  I'll try to be more level-headed.

I had assumed booting a mac into windows wouldn't be a concern, after seeing the the guide on using Linux and Wine stickied.  It seemed to suggest the program was robust enough to run in less-than-ideal situations, and I hadn't noticed any "No Macs Allowed" notices either.  If I thought it would do me any good, I'd boot up my Ubuntu partition and run it in Wine, but I figured native Windows would be a better bet.  Surely emulated windows is more abnormal than intel processors in shiny white plastic?

The Sensible Soccer threads discussing the Speed Switch program are dead links now.  I'm a little hesitant to run something that messes with processor speeds, but I'll use that as a last resort when I finally get to live test my Wasted Dreams pack.

Speaking of which, how would you like a copy of the Wasted Dreams pack I'm working on?  It's pretty simple so far, with the only changes to the "Killerball" config I started with being the addition of more chip ram and fast ram (the program neatly refused to run with a message describing what it needed.  Very polite!).  It's pretty big, since the HDF is 500mb.  The game was originally a CD game, but since it never uses CD audio and contains no copy protection, copying everything to an HDF worked perfectly.  I won't be able to get a copy of my pack to the chap I plan to play this with for a few weeks, so any tweaks you recommend for the config would be appreciated!

[mihcael]

Me and Horace are the only pack devs. Horace has done 99% of everything on this site, I've done the other 1%.

ahem! 
I used to make packs 

But i made more packs then i played actual games (mainly due to remoteness), so i lost interest

You mean you never do any testing using localhost?  I would expect such a small development team would do plenty of testing that didn't depend on the availability of a second party.  Maybe that's why I see so many posts apologizing for the delay of pack 4!   :lol:
...

When i made packs back then this is how i tested them, but my testing was not very throrough.

As you have noticed, the preformance was never very good when running Kaillera twice!