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[xboxisfinished]

I am just curious. I have one question, is BlitzBasic 2 easier when it handles collision detection over AMOS?

Thanks in advance.

[Xertese]

Coding in Blitz is more complicated but is far more powerful than Amos

For example Skidmarks the game was coded using Blitz you just wouldn't be able to do a game like that in Amos.

[xboxisfinished]

Coding in Blitz is more complicated but is far more powerful than Amos

For example Skidmarks the game was coded using Blitz you just wouldn't be able to do a game like that in Amos.

So....in that case...instead of pounding my head like crazy trying to get the collision working on AMOS...I should just simply cancel the project on AMOS and move on Blitz Basic 2? It is a thought.

One question, how do I go about migrating the images I made using AMOS Object Editor to shape file or iff file that works on Blitz Basic?

Thanks in advance.

[Xertese]

Create a sprite sheet simply paste all your bobs that use the same palette on to a screen on Amos then save that screen as IFF then tidy things up in Deluxe paint

Another Bonus is Blitz has AGA support.

[Hungry Horace]

Blitz is much harder to get working productivly and reliably in  my opinion. It also lacks the huge resource of documentation and gues that AMOS has, and this is because of inconsistancies in the use of additional command sets for it.



 *is* possible to get high quality games rnning on AMOS, and even complex ones running with some clever trickery.

However, i think this discussion has been had many times!

[Xertese]

Blitz is much harder to get working productivly and reliably in  my opinion. It also lacks the huge resource of documentation and gues that AMOS has, and this is because of inconsistancies in the use of additional command sets for it.

lol spoken as a purist for Amos.
You do know how Amos works right?
It's the least productive but easiest language out there for Amiga.
A great tool for getting to grips with the concepts but if you want to do anything serious it is no good.

[Hungry Horace]

I would appreciate keeping any assumptions of knowledge /preference and similar comments out of this board thank you.

I am no purist, I've used Blitz many times, and yes, as a set of ASM macros it is excellent - definatly capable of surpassing AMOS in both speed and function (e.g. AGA) for what is currently available - but it doesn't help if you cannot make them work without crashes or reach appropriate documentation where needed. As such I would not recommend it to xboxisfinished , who seems to be on the early rungs of the coding ladder. That is, however, my own personal opinion only.


Perhaps the judgement of AMOS products being "no good" is just one of bad experience? You should look to the great work done by authors of many well written Amos games, including commercial games such as Flight of the Amazon Queen,  Base Jumpers, the Valhalla series or Jetstrike.... All of which began life (as a minimum) in AMOS.

Or instead we could look at more recent ventures such as Mr. beanbag. The author is still on EAB, so maybe we can get her to visit here - not doubt she considered it "somethig serious" and many would be hard pressed to describe it as "no good". Perhaps she can explain what techniques she used to  avoid  the experiences you have obviously had, which formed your low opinion of AMOS's capabilities and productivity.

The number of games which start life on AMOS would suggest to me that it is *very* productive, but sadly, it is undeniable that it lacks the "grunt" that other languages can often offer unless you are prepared to put the extra work in.


If you would like a more in depth list of well-rated AMOS titles, I suggest you have a look through the following thread, to see which ones meet your requirements;I

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=13117

But I would kindly request you leave the "bashing" of AMOS, and anyone who wishes to explain what is good about it, out the AMOS forum section of this site. You are more than welcome to contribute guides, documentation, tips etc for Blitz in the more amiga general sections of the board, and in fact it would be welcomed, and it's always good to expand the resources available here.


Just to be sure, you are aware AMOS can have in-line Asm right?  From your comment re "how it works" I assume you are referring to the interpreted nature of the original pre-compiler version of Amos, which suggests perhaps a bit of misunderstanding of how AMOS evolved.

Just as new command sets can be added to blitz, new extensions can be written for AMOS, and have been! Immediately, those commands are as good as the ASM code behind them!

[xboxisfinished]

I did it! I have done the collision detection using 2 dimensional array! That is the only way to do it. Seriously...only way to do it. More here: http://www.ultimateamiga.co.uk/index.php/topic,9805.0.html

[Xertese]

Whoa!
Chill out Horace sorry if i hurt your feelings
Damn.
None of the games you mention to my knowledge were exclusively coded in Amos only partialy so you are misleading our friend here somewhat as to what is achievable using Amos.

[SamuraiCrow]

The compiler for AmosPro needs work but the rest is OK.

[Hungry Horace]

Chill out Horace sorry if i hurt your feelings

Lets  get this clear, that type of of comment can be stopped now thanks, before it's taiken as 'baiting' and we have to start talking about formal forum warnings  - i have explained everything clearly above, i have respected your opinion and provided a number of sources and additional information to counter your viewpoint (that's how open discussions work)....  if you want to ignore it, i suggest you do just that, and avoid replying in a manner that is clearly contrary to a respectful forum discussion.

Similar replies to others where there has been been differences in opinion, and/or explanation of some background of AMOS have already been noticed in other threads, so it's hardly like this is a first occurance.


We are glad to have your input on the baords Xertese, and I honestly do not want to see you in a posiiton where you feel you cannot have a difference of opinon, but would ask that you respect other people's opinions yourself and refrain from making comments such as the above that seem designed to provoke a reaction... just as your original comments 2 posts back were.

None of the games you mention to my knowledge were exclusively coded in Amos only partialy

On topic (and lets keep it that way from here please)  The Valhalla series were all coded purely in AMOS.

An interview with the authors confirms that Base Jumpers and Jetstrike (even the CD32 versions) were written completly in AMOS, with the authors doing exactly what I said before, and writing their own extensions for the AGA parts. That leaves only Flight of the Amazon Queen from my original list which was only *started* in AMOS, an expanded using other languages. I would therefore have to differ on your opinion in stating that a 75% " coded in AMOS" hit rate is misleading (and thats allowing Valhalla as only one game, and not as 5, which is how many were actually released, which would otherwise given an 87% strike rate)

You can read the interview with the Base Jumpers / Jet Strike authors here:

http://www.amigapd.com/interview-aaron-and-adam-fothergill.html

And they even mention the 'stigma' of being seen to code in AMOS, from software houses  who clearly started with similar opinions to your own.


The reason for mentioning those that started life in AMOS was the fact you mentioned it's productivity - those beginning life in AMOS suggests quite the opposite, so don't be surprised to see someone present a counter-opinion. Many of the games in the linked thread are 100% AMOS also.... For PD AMOS titles, I am a big fan of Super Foul Egg ( http://hol.abime.net/5389 ) which has a very polished feel to it, and there are less known commercial titles such as Genesia ( http://hol.abime.net/2715 ) if you want something more complex.


I am perfectly willing to accept that you have no experience of good performing games in AMOS. However, i have already suggested you go and look at some more games and perhaps you will reconsider before making sweeping generalisations about the principle topic of this section of the website.

[xboxisfinished]

Chill out Horace sorry if i hurt your feelings

Sorry guys I did not mean to cause flame here. Horace is right though, AMOS is a good beginner language and indeed suited to get things done and I have seeing real sweet games made pure in AMOS.

So I am going to continue my game on AMOS until the end. Progress of my game have went very good so good in fact. Tomorrow I will work on going to next level when you collect all the items and actually start working right away on the monster AI and adding timer to the level. I already designed the first level and I am impressed big time on how powerful the language is.

It is completely my fault for not using two dimensional array In fact, tomorrow I will post the 1ST actual executable program here so  you guys can try it out and see what I did so far.

[Amiga Forever]

I have to be honest with you that Blitz 2 is bit harder than Amos and that is my view.

[bruceuncle]

Hey, looks like I missed out on a good cats-versus-dogs-as-pets discussion while I was away. 

It doesn't look like anyone really answered you question, xboxisfinished.  The problems of collision detection on an Amiga are much more a result of the Amiga's unique hardware than of which language you're using.  There are usually three options:

• Use the built-in hardware collision detection.
• Use software collision detection.
• Use a separate map array to track objects.  Really only useful for maze-like games.

The first two mean that you need a reasonable understanding of bitplanes, sprites, bobs, colour maps, etc.  So they're usually fairly hard to get working.  But great when you do get them working.  I found chapter 1.5 of the PDF of Amiga System Programmer's Guide the best introduction.  And I still have to sit down with graph paper and pencil whenever I try to work it out for a particular application. 

As to what language...  I've never used Blitz Basic so I can't comment on it.  But your choices come down to:

• Assembly language.  The hardest to learn and most cumbersome to write.  But the fastest and most compact.  A working knowledge would be useful (see below) but wouldn't recommend it as an intro to the Amiga.  Obviously, I use it a lot as that's what AMOS Pro is written in.  (Okay pedants, the 3D library is an exception of sorts.)
• C.  Easy to learn as a language.  Reasonably compact.  But requires a lot of knowledge of the includes files, libraries and hardware when applied to the Amiga.  I've used it a little to repair a mate's shop inventory program on an ageing A1000.  But that was a long time ago...  A kinda modern day comparison would be that it's a bit like learning Java.  The language is easy but the class libraries need a lot of hands-on experience before one feels comfortable with them.
• Basic.  AMOS Pro being my obvious choice.  It makes it easy to get stuff up and running without an intimate knowledge of how an Amiga actually works.  I've stated elsewhere in these forums that my method of working with AMOS is to initially program the whole thing in AMOS Basic.  Then, and only if speed or other considerations warrant it, I will use one of its sub-languages (AMAL or Interface).  And AMOS Pro also makes it a very simple matter to add one or more machine code procedures.  That's where a little knowledge of assembler can come in useful.  Communicating between AMOS and machine-code procedures is very easy to do.

Anyway, that's my thoughts